PRE-EXISTENCE REVISITED - NYOBS 91.16

Pre-existence Revisited

Did the Saints; the Elect pre-exist before their creation on earth?

First Thoughts

·         The first time I ever heard that man pre-existed was while watching “Shepherd’s Chapel” with Pastor Arnold Murray whose BS, Belief System teaches that when God said “Let us make man in our Image,” He was talking to all of the spirits in heaven from the FIRST EARTH AGE both good and bad that had to be born of woman on earth in order to make a FREE WILL decision to follow God or Satan. – Those who had fought against Satan in the FIRST EARTH AGE were called the ELECT; they for sure would choose God.

·My worldview and Belief System is that God was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit; the Trinity with the angels looking on whom we were created just lower than; angels were created immortal and we were created MORTAL; we have a SOUL and they do not; if we sin WE CAN BE FORGIVEN, they cannot.

Genesis 1:26 – God is speaking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit
²⁶ Then God said, “LET US MAKE HUMAN BEINGS IN OUR IMAGE, to be like ourselves. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.” (NLT)

Pre-existence

·         The Book says that Man’s natural body existed FIRST, then his spiritual body existed LATER.   And then emphatically says that man has NEVER BEFORE heard God’s voice nor saw His face and that his spirit was formed within his body.

·         Jesus pre-existed in Heaven because He is God, having no beginning nor an end of existence.  Jesus teaches that He is different from man; that there are two existences or two different states or bodies.  Jesus says clearly that we are not from above, but from below; not of heaven, but of earth.  With that said; no mortal person can claim pre-existence in heaven, except the son of God, Jesus the Christ.

Hebrews 7:3 – Jesus; no beginning nor and end
³ There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors—NO BEGINNING OR END TO HIS LIFE. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.

(NLT)

John 8:23 – Man belongs to the world; not heaven
²³ Jesus continued, “YOU ARE FROM BELOW; I AM FROM ABOVE.

YOU BELONG TO THIS WORLD; I DO NOT.

(NLT)

1 Corinthians 15:46-48 – Two bodies – Earthly and Heavenly

⁴⁶ What COMES FIRST is the natural body,

then the spiritual body COMES LATER.
⁴⁷ Adam, the FIRST man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the SECOND man, came from heaven.
⁴⁸ EARTHLY PEOPLE ARE LIKE THE EARTHLY MAN, and

HEAVENLY PEOPLE ARE LIKE THE HEAVENLY MAN. (NLT)

John 5:37 – Man never heard, saw or pre-existed with God
³⁷ And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself,

YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD HIS VOICE

OR SEEN HIM FACE TO FACE^. (NLT)

Zechariah 12:1 – Our spirits were formed within our bodies

¹ The oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and FORMED THE SPIRIT OF MAN WITHIN HIM: (ESV)

God Knew Us

·         Every time I see verses in the Book that indicates that God knew us before we were born, causes me to conclude that we existed before we were born SOMEWHERE. – He told Jeremiah the prophet that HE KNEW HIM BEFORE He formed him in his mother’s womb.  Isaiah was called from the womb BEFORE he was born. – God FOREKNEW Peter BEFORE he was born. – Paul was set apart BEFORE he was born. – God for some reason loved Esau less and Jacob more BEFORE they were born.

·         Webster’s Dictionary says KNEW or to know, is to have a clear perception or understanding of something or situation, to be sure of, or well informed about something or situation; to know the facts; to be aware or cognizant; to have a firm mental grasp of what is going on.

·         The Book teaches of Good and Evil, Believers and Unbelievers, the faithful and the faithless. - God knew before we were born, who we would be and what we would do and how we would receive the Good news of the Gospel message. – EVERY DAY OF OUR LIFE WAS RECORDED IN HIS BOOK.  EVERY MOMENT WAS LAID OUT BEFORE A SINGLE DAY HAD PASSED. – Over and over again we see that Jesus KNEW what was in the hearts of man before it was ever made manifest.

·         In an effort to embarrass Jesus, and insinuate that He was not the son of Joseph the carpenter; that He was a bastard child, the child of an immoral woman, a whore, they asked on a worldly level; ‘WHERE IS YOUR FATHER?” but Jesus responded on a spiritual level’  “you don’t know who I am, you don’t know who my Father is.  If you knew me, you would also know my Father.

·         So my Belief System confirms to me that when God knew us, it was KNOWLEDGE in His mind of who we would be in HIM, what we would do with HIM and how we would be a part of the Good news of HIM.  When God speaks of “KNOWING”, He is speaking to believers; of knowing what is in their hearts, but to those that do not believe and the make believers, He will look into their hearts and say I NEVER KNEW YOU.

Jeremiah 1:5 – God knew us before we were born
⁵ I KNEW YOU BEFORE I FORMED YOU IN YOUR MOTHER’S WOMB. Before you were born I SET YOU APART and APPOINTED YOU as my prophet to the nations.” (NLT)

Isaiah 49:1 – Isaiah was called by God before he was born
¹ Listen to me, O coastlands, and give attention, you peoples from afar. THE LORD CALLED ME FROM THE WOMB, from the body of my mother he named my name. (ESV)

1 Peter 1:1-2 – Peter was known by God before his birth
¹ PETER, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
² according to THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: (ESV)

Galatians 1:15-16 – Paul set apart before he was born
¹⁵ But when he who had SET ME APART BEFORE I WAS BORN, and who called me by his grace,
¹⁶ was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone; (ESV)

Romans 9:10-14 – Esau was loved less before he was born
¹⁰ And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
¹¹ THOUGH THEY WERE NOT YET BORN

AND HAD DONE NOTHING EITHER GOOD OR BAD—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—
¹² she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”
¹³ As it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
¹⁴ What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!

(ESV)

Mark 2:8 – God knows what is in our hearts.
⁸ JESUS KNEW IMMEDIATELY WHAT THEY WERE THINKING, so he asked them, “Why do you question THIS IN YOUR HEARTS? (NLT)

John 13:11 – Jesus knows who will reject Him
¹¹ For JESUS KNEW WHO WOULD BETRAY HIM. That is what he meant when he said, “Not all of you are clean.”

(NLT)

John 6:64 – Jesus knows who will receive and reject Him
⁶⁴ But some of you do not believe me.”

FOR JESUS KNEW FROM THE BEGINNING WHICH ONES DIDN’T BELIEVE, AND HE KNEW WHO WOULD BETRAY HIM. (NLT)

John 8:19 – Knowing is believing and accepting
¹⁹ Where is your father?” they asked. Jesus answered, “Since

YOU DON’T KNOW WHO I AM,

YOU DON’T KNOW WHO MY FATHER IS.

IF YOU KNEW ME, YOU WOULD

ALSO KNOW MY FATHER.”

(NLT)

Galatians 4:8 – Knowing is the KNOWLEDGE of God
⁸ BEFORE YOU GENTILES KNEW GOD,

YOU WERE SLAVES TO SO-CALLED GODS

that do not even exist. (

NLT)

1 Peter 1:2 – God knew you and chose you long ago
² GOD THE FATHER KNEW YOU AND CHOSE YOU LONG AGO, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.  May God give you more and more grace and peace.

(NLT)

Psalm 139:13-17 – God saw us before we were ever born
¹³ YOU MADE ALL THE DELICATE, INNER PARTS OF MY BODY AND KNIT ME TOGETHER in my mother’s womb.
¹⁴ Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
¹⁵ YOU WATCHED ME AS I WAS BEING FORMED in utter seclusion, as I was WOVEN TOGETHER in the dark of the womb.
¹⁶ YOU SAW ME BEFORE I WAS BORN. EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE WAS RECORDED IN YOUR BOOK. EVERY MOMENT WAS LAID OUT BEFORE A SINGLE DAY HAD PASSED.
¹⁷ How precious are your thoughts about me, O God. They cannot be numbered! (NLT)

Matthew 7:23 – To some God will say He never knew them
²³ But I will reply, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ (NLT)

The Take Away

·         The Bible was not written to Un-believers or Make-Believers.  God is writing to the Believer about His KNOWLEDGE of their existence before they were ever born. 

·         YES, we pre-existed, we existed in the mind of God before we were ever created and He predestined every Believer to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ and the Believer will not only be called, they will be justified and glorified; can you say PRAISE GOD

·         The Book teaches both Free Will and Predestination, you don’t have to choose between them, they are compatible with each other. Many are called to come to Christ by Free Will, while few others were chosen; predestined, God uses both.  If you embrace both as I do, you are called a compatibilist.

·          NYOBS 75.15 - PRE-EXISTANCE -- NYOBS 88.02 – GLORIFIED BODY --NYOBS 71.24 – IMAGE OF GOD -- NYOBS 75.08 – SANCTIFICATION & JUSTIFICATION -- NYOBS 03.30  PREDESTINATION; DEVINE ELECTION -- NYOBS 07.011 GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY; DEVINE  ELECTION -- NYOBS 11.02 – CALVINISM -- NYOBS 29.28 – PREDESTINATION REVISITED  -- NYOBS 85.24 – MARTIN LUTHER AND FREE WILL --  NYOBS 35.02 – FALLING FROM GRACE -- NYOBS 76.02 - ISHMAEL & ISAAC; ALLAH & YAHWEH

Romans 8:29 – Believer will be conformed to the Image of God
²⁹ For THOSE WHOM HE FOREKNEW HE ALSO PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. (ESV)

Romans 8:30 – We become the Called; the Justified and Glorified
³⁰ And those whom he predestined HE ALSO CALLED, and those

whom he called HE ALSO JUSTIFIED, and those whom he justified HE ALSO GLORIFIED. (ESV)

Matthew 22:14 – Many are called to come to Jesus Christ
¹⁴ FOR MANY ARE CALLED (to come by Free Will),

BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN. (Predestined) ” (NLT)

Genesis 2:7 – The breath of God gave man his SOUL – His life

7 And the LORD GOD FORMED MAN OF THE DUST of the ground, and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE; and MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL. KJV

In the multitude of counselors,

there is wisdom.

Proverbs 11:14

I am grateful to those that went before me providing concepts, ideas, historical

information, and scripture verses.  Because of them I can stand on their shoulders

                         and see further that I otherwise ever could have.              

                                                                                                                                     

Antiquity of the Jews – Flavius Josephus Matthias

Apocrypha – Goodspeed

Baker Commentary on the Bible – Elwell

Bible Almanac; The – Packer-Tenney-White

Bible Commentary – F.B. Meyer

Bible Dictionary – Harper and Row

Bible Dictionary – Nelson’s

Dake’s Annotated Bible – Dake

Don’t know much about the Bible – Kenneth C. Davis

English Standard Version Bible – ESV

Expositor’s Bible Commentary – Frank E. Gaebelein

Forgotten Books of Eden; The – World

Gospels Interwoven; The – Karmit Zarley

Illustrated Bible Dictionary; The – Tyndale

Interlinear Greek-English New Testament – Baker

Invisible War; The – Donald Grey Barnhouse

King James Version Bible – KJV

Lost Books of the Bible; The - World

Lost Books of the Bible; The - Bell

Matthew Henry’s Commentary - Zondervan

Meredith’s Book of List; 1&2 –Bethany House Publishers

Missing Books of the Bible; The – Halo Press

Mysteries of the Bible – Readers Digest

Nag Hammadi Library; The – James M. Robinson

Nave’s Topical Bible - Zondervan

New International Dictionary of the Bible; The – Douglas - Tenney

New International Version Bible (2011) – NIV

New Living Translation Bible - NLT

Other side of the Good News; The – Larry Dixon

Secrets of the Dead Sea Scrolls – Hugh J. Schonfield

Systematic Theology – Wayne Grudem

Thru the Bible – J. Vernon McGee

Unseen Realm; The – Michael S. Heiser

Vincent’s Word Studies of the New Testament – Mac Donald

Who’s Who in the Bible – Paul D. Gardner

Wycliffe Bible Commentary; The – Pfeiffer & Harrison

Wikipedia –

Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible; The – Tenney